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  • Topic: ATTITUDES TO RECENT RIOTS.

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    • August 13, 2011 4:35 PM BST
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      Having been far way from the riots and general crazy mayhem that I have been reading about in the press here in OZ, I am wondering about the perspectives of the girls here? I have read the comments of those in power who denounce the actions of the perpetrators... And I agree the actions are anti social and destructive, but doesn't it describe a deep malaise within the disenfranchised ? I mean they see the perpetrators of mass financial ruin and self enrichment and illegality get away scot free .... and still continue to run the bullshit !! ???
    • August 13, 2011 5:11 PM BST
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      OK my views- essentially I see it as a touch of the reichstag fires - fomenting discontent so you can crack down - and beat the drum with the broom handles !!! It kinda fits a nwo viewpoint- Add in the media fest - and how responsible they may or may not have been in terms of providing reward for bad behaviour - well?? moot point and plenty of past precedent - as for the perceived fact that govt is incompetent too- and the police - the sheeple involved are personally just helping themselves as are the officers of the law to the very welcome overtime - In a sentenced - and lots will be jobs, greed, and yes a sign of a sick society - Righteous disgust building up to a triumph of a right wing backlash - Am I Cynical - probably!!
    • August 13, 2011 5:15 PM BST
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      Nicky, this is my opinion and i'm sure some might disagree but here goes..I feel on this occassion of rioting there was no protest,just an excuse to go and steal what the benefits wont let them buy..A lot of these were kids who have no idea about financial ruin, politics or whatever else..All they know is that what they cant afford to buy is ok to steal as a gang..'Theres no jobs out there innit' people dont repsect us' all that bollocks..They have no intention of getting a job coz stealing is easier innit..
    • August 13, 2011 7:07 PM BST
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      anybody want a flat screen telly...?
    • August 13, 2011 7:09 PM BST
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      Lol @ terri dee x
    • August 13, 2011 7:19 PM BST
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      Terri ,,what size is it????? lol
    • August 13, 2011 8:25 PM BST
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      Nicky, This has no easy answers in a post industrial economy like the UK.

      I guess there are 2 main viewpoints :-

      1. The "underclass" deserve to be hammered for being scum and looters, in the past they have been protected whenever they do wrong, and now the time has come to punish these idle wastrels and have their homes taken away (if possible). A cynical view I know - but one has to ask why they did it?

      2. The looters feel they are no different from the bankers, MPs, police, press...etcetera, etcetera....who mainly went unpunished for their bankruptcy financially and morally of the British state since 2007.

      The truth is somewhere in the middle of course....and who knows what it is. Don't forget the underclass have been rioting since Wat Tyler, and as the author of Shameless pointed out in today's Times...isn't it ironic that Cameron lists it as one of his favourite shows yet wants to punish the underclass. Read the article if you pay for Times on line.

      There are no easy answers here. I was lucky on Tuesday nite in the centre of Manchester that I didn't have to choose between running and my handbag or whatever. So for me mob rule can never be the answer.

      hugs

      Pauline xxxx
    • August 13, 2011 8:35 PM BST
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      42"
    • August 13, 2011 8:43 PM BST
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      Terri - so long as you dont get caught like the 2 employed middle class mid 20s guys in Manchester found with a Bang & Olufsen (45 inch??). 6 months minimum....worth it...who knows? P xx
    • August 13, 2011 8:51 PM BST
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      i think she is being sarcastic pauline, same as i am ..eh Terrie xxxx
    • August 13, 2011 8:54 PM BST
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      If I was to have taken part in them, I think the ones in London looked more fun, but for convenience it would have to be Manchester
    • August 13, 2011 9:00 PM BST
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      ok Terri I think the sarcasm has gone far enough,dont you? We as a general public dont find it funny but a bit of sarcy is fine..Maybe you would like to give us all a real point of view from you..?April xx
    • August 13, 2011 9:15 PM BST
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      Banks, governments and businesses have been looting this country for years, maybe I'd care more if I were the owner of Footlocker or Currys, Vive le revolution!
    • August 13, 2011 9:30 PM BST
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      Ok, good thank you for your views on the subject Terri, x I think we all have differing views on the subject and because so maybe we should aire them on more open forums, ie: news forums,? I feel that this is a site to aire more open and trans subjects on ,plenty of riot forums for us to discuss on..April xxxxxxx
    • August 14, 2011 5:59 AM BST
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      April, I am sorry if I have interrupted your tranny thoughts, but we actually do not all live in a fantasy world. I, for one, live in the real world and love my real world and want to be real in my world.

      I believe this site should not set itself apart from the rest of the world. I am a human being first and foremost. What is happening in the global community is as important to a Tgirl as it is to anyone else.

      I know you girls are probably going through some post riot fatigue, but let's not exclude political or social comment from Transtastic.

      Nicky XXX
    • August 14, 2011 6:05 AM BST
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      I suggest watching the eye opening "Inside Job" film to get a perspective on how everyone, including us Tgirls, are being screwed. nicky XXX
    • August 14, 2011 9:49 AM BST
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      I don't have any problems with humour - these "riots" impact on all of our lives - and we need humour to release some of the tensions we are all going through and will all face here in England. Whether its increased police presence, interference with social networking sites...or just the lack of jobs for anyone especially those under 25. As Tgirls we are a vulnerable group anyways...none of us know how much these riots will be used as a reason to reduce personal freedoms. P xxxx
    • August 14, 2011 10:46 AM BST
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      First of all can I just say that if you think the riots were funny you should have been in one!!!........ they are not funny!!! Flip comments last week, here in Ealing, where a 68 year old bloke was murdered, would be met with all the delight of finding a turd in a swimming pool!
      Next….. The reasons ………..well let’s have a little list for starters
      Shitty schooling with mediocre politically correct teachers who instead of pushing black and white boys to reach their best…. are frightened of them and think that keeping class order is against their human rights
      If a parent tries to control their child you can be arrested for challenging their human rights.
      Adults are deeply frightened of groups of 16 year old males
      The politicians and police leaders demonstrate a mediocrity of thinking and leadership that is breathtaking!
      Ordinary people living in little houses on London’s streets feel utterly helpless to influence or change anything in their lives.
      On one street in London down one side live people earning £250,000 a year with a masertati parked outside and three holidays in Tuscany, Bahamas and Thailand. On the other side of the same street are people who work for the council on £12.000 a year…. for them going to the cinema is a six monthly treat
      Every day we are bombarded by messages and adverts that tell us we are totally worthless human beings unless we wear this make-up, these trainers, these jeans, have an ipad 2, an Omega watch, a Mulberry handbag.
      If you walk around with nothing but good cheer for your fellow humans your either a ‘total loser man’, an eccentric who will shortly be visited by social services or a religious nutter.
      The biggest achievement anyone can aspire too in human culture of 2011 is to be Jedward……..your worth as a person is judged by your ability to be a celebrity and to put your nonexistent talent on media parade so the people making the money from the programmes can sneer and denigrate you and parade you for fun under the camouflage of celebrity! While they make obscene amounts of television for creating and running the Roman equivalent of the gladiatorial games where killing each other in Forum is replaced by singing tunelessly while standing on one leg in a bucket of baked beans!!!
      If your sixteen and living in West Ealing…… if you don’t belong to a gang dominated by a few alpha male lunatics who enjoy power and controlling others…. and who feed on hatred and distorted mindless loyalty ….then you get seriously beaten to crap….. or your sister and mother does. No fathers are around as male role models… the role models are the dealers who park their Lamborghinis outside Blockbusters on a Friday night!! You think I’m joking!!! I was punched in the face by one two years ago!
      The world tell us all that we deserve everything and we deserve it now it has no messages about achieving something for yourself and being rewarded for it…no value put on being intelligent, or clever and if you show kindness it means your weak and useless. You have to swagger and strut and not show that you have any intelligence at all or you stand out from the crowd and you will be beaten, bullied and destroyed!!
      There’s loads more reason for the riots…. but this is a start!
    • August 14, 2011 11:07 AM BST
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      I am crying Andrea, ... really crying, ..... because everything you say is true. And I don't know how to stop crying? My tears are real and I only have so many and then it turns into something else.

      Nicky xxxOOOXXX
    • August 14, 2011 11:32 AM BST
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      Andrea- from the heart and the mind - perfectly summarised the situation which pertains - there is profound change going on - on one level - human nature such as it is - is not evolving at a speed that it can understand the technology it uses - take you back to two phrases - there is no society - and greed is good - perhaps the basis of what we have now!!! Now who spouted those words????
    • August 14, 2011 11:35 AM BST
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      sorry girls I got a bit overheated and Nicky don't cry!! its shit!!!...... but tiny little forces for good in the shape of brave t-girls can only help! and yes April !!! you mirror my thoughts!!!
      A XXXXXX
    • August 14, 2011 11:38 AM BST
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      The last recession we had in the 80's sparked a revolution in the UK. In the 80s there were bad football riots, every weekend almost. Black and white people did not mix, not en mass anyway, and there were lots of racial tension.

      The country was a dark place to be in.

      But one thing changed all that almost over night. Music.

      More specifically, dance music, acid house. Instead of rioting rival football fans began taking ecstasy and partying all night at illegal raves all around the M25, mixing with black people, posh white people, all kinds of people really.

      Yes, there was trouble at these parties, they were organized by criminals, mostly football gang leaders, and there would often be confrontations between the police and party goers, I remember being at a farm somewhere near Oxford in 89 dancing in a huge marquee completely off my tits on E when a riot broke out. The police came with dogs and they wanted to end the party, no way, we fought back, without covering our faces, without throwing petrol bombs, without looting, without much violence really, though it was nasty at the time i admit, but quite sure no one got hurt.

      These parties carried on into the 90, the music reflected the new generation perfectly. We came together in the face of absurdity, sticking two fingers up at Thatchers "there is no such thing as society" , effectively ignoring anyone who dared stop us. Drugs are bad, we were told, we didnt see it, we took them and had fun, we had fun for years. Most of us grew up into stable citizens eventually, though there were casualties, there always would be.

      Now lets look at what most kids listen too now. Hip hop. Gangsta rap, grime, dubstep.

      I like those genres of music, but their not exactly positive. Hip hop and gangsta rap is responsible for turning skinny white kids into faux gangsta niggers, or as Chris Moyles eloquently calls them, ONGI's, Oh My God Init!

      Its not just in london, but peterborough, norwich, they all have these disillusioned white kids who somehow think their black and all gangsta, just because they smoked some strong skunk weed and seen a few Snoop Dogg videos on MTV.

      There are some white kigs, Wiggers, who actually try to speak with a jamaican influence, even though the closest they got to jamaica is singing Day O at some distant wedding.

      Music is a very powerful tool, very powerful, should never be underestimated, or ignored.

      Hip hop and gangsta rap is littered with negative messages, promoting violence, rape, racial tension, robbery, murder. So naturally kids will pick up on this because a; its either Jedward or the Saturdays as an alternative, b; it will make them look harder if they are seen to like hip hop.

      The attitudes reflected by this music is all too obvious on the streets nowadays. It has turned the weak minded into selfish and ignorant morons, who seem to think that violence is the only viable answer.

      Of course, music is just a small part of the bigger picture, but its a part of it nonetheless and so far no one has cottoned on to this yet, apart from me, so i am either way off the mark here or an idiot myself, and unusually i dont think i am this time.
    • August 14, 2011 11:50 AM BST
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      Andrea,
      As I said in my first post here......I was lucky to only be on the edges of the rioting here. I don't and didn't think it was funny - I was scared (shitless??) even though I was with a man - it ain't easy to run in heels and I am no spring chicken so would never have got away. Having been mugged in Paris (many years ago) I don't relish physical violence or take these situations lightly, but I do think that black humour may help assuage some of the angst.

      All my posts on this issue have tried to be provocative. The sound bite answers that are given by Cameron et al - who had a real grilling on BBC North West last Friday (when he visited the area) - and by the way it surprised him to be attacked - the questioner asked him why he was on holiday, why he blamed the police and how his cuts had impacted on the young people of Manchester.

      Like you i could write loads on this. I do know that almost 30% of under 25 year olds have no job (and no chance of one) and worry that the slash and burn tactics of the coalition - cutting services from libraries to education - will result in more rioting.
      Your analysis of the inequities of British life is superb (nearly said masterly). The UK is the only western European country to have the extremes of wealth and poverty and life expectancy that are more common in 3rd world countries; the USA of course is even worse. These contribute.
      Maybe if we stopped fighting all these pointless wars (never mind getting involved in new ones) we could divert all that wasted money (on defence???) into building decent homes and public transport (for starters) - and create some jobs outside of call centre drones.

      I hope the debate continues here - its important
      hugs

      Pauline xxxx

    • August 14, 2011 1:58 PM BST
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      The acts of the riots were more of a criminal nature than of a reason for change as far as I can see.
      Maybe we should have the return of National Service, though for 5-years and not 3. And that the people put into it are actually taught a trade or profession and the encouragement to follow it to then become true citizens who have a purpose to the community and most importantly, to themselves.
      Yes we should get out of Afghanistan and Iraq, and we should dump the whole Libyan/Gadaffi problem in the laps of the Arab League, and tell them he is one of theirs so deal with it, instead of costing tax payers here as well as putting our Aircrews lives at risk.
      This so-called government needs to look at the British People and those who lawfully live here and help them to achieve their dreams and ideals instead of the politicians mouthing off to make themselves look good. But you can not expect a government that actually hates it's own people, (and this all started with Blair} to be bothered about us. After all as long as they are protected, the rest of us can go to hell and pick mint as far as the government are concerned.
      Yes we need to look at the causes of the rioting as well as what to do to prevent it happening ever again, and to make sure all our vital services, i.e., the Police, Ambulance and Fire Services are not cut but given the fullest support from the government as they do from the people.
      Also people have to stop blaming the Police in what appears to be a failure to intervene, when their hands are tied by legislation and rules that control their engagement.
      Also, banging these people up will only serve to over-load the prison service as well as cost tax payers even more money, hence why I believe National Service should be brought back and these people put into the forces to learn a trade or profession, but it must be meaningful training and education and not just a number count exercise, as this and previous governments have endeavoured to do.
      Now I know that many will jerk back at National Service, but as an ex member of the Armed Forces I fully believe that these youngsters will get a meaningful purpose in life as well as serving the British Public and their Country. For one of the problems we have in this Country is the lack of National Pride, not only in being British, but in being English, We Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish as well as Cornish people have no problem with being proud of our Nations and Heritage, but due to the do-gooders of England who want to cow tow to Europe and the like I feel that it is about time the English remembered their heritage and National Identity and started flying their Flag, The Cross of St. George, not the Union Flag. And from that pride will come their self pride and hopefully from that will come a learning by the government, which should lead to them investing in OUR People instead of jetting off and getting involved in wars and stuff that do not benefit anyone from this Country, this Sceptered Isle, except themselves!

      Rachel

      xxxx
    • August 14, 2011 1:59 PM BST
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      Hear Hear !! All you girls ! It is about the world we live in.
      Read Read !! This intelligence !!

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